Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: grendelschoice Date: May 30, 2010 7:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Calling all Dark Star experts

Looking for (if it exists) the mellowest, jazziest, LEAST feedback/space-scary cacaphonous DARK STAR post-1969, and pre-1978.

Tough order, i know. (Basically, I already know my favorite "old school" Dark Star is 10/25/69, which is a gem of jazzy, intricate, beautiful jamming without the let-down of the "scare your dog from the room" section that, for me anyway, mars so many of the otherwise really fine DS's from 1972-1974. And for post-1974, I already have the 12/31/78 performance and the 7/13/84 Greek Theater encore as well as a nice one from Nassau 1/10/79 to turn to...)

Anyway, if there's one sneaking around out there as I've described, anytime between 1970-1974 I'd be much obliged. Thanks!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: midnightcarousel Date: May 30, 2010 6:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

I personally think that the space segments from 1970 are VERY listenable, and usually don't last too long - 2/13/70 being an obvious example. The space is a few minutes long but is really sublime, no real cacophony, just quiet eeriness, and it evolves into a really beautiful jam. So even though some of the versions from that year do have a feedbacky part, I wouldn't skip over it because it's a lot more listenable than the many 1973 earbusting freakouts.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: William Tell Date: May 30, 2010 3:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

Hey GC--I've always thought that 9-19-70, though having some of the elements (quiet "insect noise" segment) you wish to avoid, is still one of the best for playing thru for novices (ie, it is one of the only DS's for which newbies have remarked a time or two "well, that's a DS I can listen to all the way thru!", so that must count for something along the lines you're searching for). Certainly the last 10 min or so qualify.

And, though out of your mini era specifications, 10-12-68, besides being one of Arb's casket requests, is the short enough type, "on theme" versions, that again, newbies often mention it as less taxing (again, talking about folks that I send shows to that just don't go for the kinds of DS's you seem interested in avoiding this fine afternoon).

Out of touch for the next few days, but here's a nice fish for CLIFF, and you; it was HUGE, and passed between Mrs Tell and myself on the outer Reef (GrBarrier).

Attachment: batfish2.jpg

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: May 30, 2010 4:00pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

Guillermo, thank you for the Batfish! But you and Mrs. Tell please be careful and watch out for Blue-Ringed Octopi...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Ernie Bo-Peep Date: May 30, 2010 8:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

10/25/69...brother, you're speaking my language!

I'm assuming 11/11/73 is already in your vocabulary so...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd74-02-24.sbd.windsor.199.sbefail.shnf

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: stratocaster Date: May 30, 2010 9:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

04-28-1971
06-10-1973
10-18-1974

haven't listened to the 73 and 74 in awhile so I don't remember if Garcia whips up the tiger, I do know that they make beautiful segues into He's Gone and Morning Dew respectively...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: grendelschoice Date: May 30, 2010 9:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

Thanks as always, folks...was hoping to get some good '71 suggestions, since it's a year i'm not much familiar with...will try all these, and hope you all have a fine holiday weekend of remembrance as well as relaxation.

GC

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: BVD Date: May 30, 2010 10:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

9/27/72 from The Stanley Theatre.High energy and jazzy. Beautiful transition into Cumberland Blues.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: stratocaster Date: May 30, 2010 9:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

one of the best 71 Dark Stars is actually a Dark Star jam sans lyrics, 12-05-1971, do check it out, it really is good...04-28-1971 is part of the Ladies and Gentlemen box set, so it might not be here, but it has the elements you were asking for, very "classic" sound in that they stick with the trademark licks/ jam

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 31, 2010 7:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

Hardly a Dark Star expert, however I recall that the one from Veneta never gets freaky until the last 20 seconds or so. Same is true for the one from 9-21-72 (DP36) which i recall while listening to it once, thinking that it would be a good one to play if you wanted to introduce someone who enjoys jazz to Dark Star without scaring the bejesus out of them.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Jim F Date: Jun 1, 2010 12:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

I like to think I'm an expert here. I have every circulating Dark Star and have a lot of opinions anyway.

I agree on 9/21/72. While it is one of the longer ones on record, it doesn't wander into scary territory like so many others from the year, and is full of nice thematic jamming as well as other more laidback or "lighthearted" jazzy passages. And I'm one who likes the scary stuff. Yet this Dark Star excels over many from the year even without the scare factor. I think 3/23/72 is a very similar Dark Star in this regard, and is worth recommending for the purposes of this search. It is sortof like a condensed version of 9/21. 4/8/72 might also be worth mentioning. It has a bit of the scare factor, but is one of the absolutely most stunning versions I've ever heard. 4/8 and 5/11 are probably my top 2 of the Europe tour.

I would also echo with 10/31/71. It has that typical Fall 71 feel, jazzy and jammy but without the deep space seen in 72-74. Probably the best recommendation in this thread. 12/5 is a pretty good choice as well, though for the purposes of answering the initial request of this thread I might go with 12/15. I personally have a really soft spot in my heart for 11/15, probably my favorite of Fall 71, but you would probably want to toss that one aside as the jam out of El Paso does get a little frantic.

I personally don't really care for the few Stars of 74, aside from 10/18 maybe (I think the massive 20+ minute jam with Ned Lagin preceeding it got most of the space and anarchy out of their system and they tend to stay on the tracks a little more). 74 Stars just seem a little too loose, slow, and often chaotic, seemingly lacking the contrasts and shifts that make a 72 or 73 Star so great (5/14/74 comes to mind, to me it is just 20+ minutes of the same, it lacks the shifting of gears seen in 72-73). For the Keith era Dark Stars, 1972 by far holds the majority of my favorites. Anyone looking for something a little more concise or "not scary" should probably stay away from 74.

7/31/71 is also a perfect recommendation. It is truly one of the more unique versions, I've always felt it is the definitive "transition" Star, bridging the path of 1970's versions with the jazz and space versions we would start to see later in the year, which built it's way to perfection in Europe and became the standard format for the next few years.

Though in my opinion, if someone is looking for something similar to a late 1969 Star, it seems to me that recommending anything from late 71-74 is like giving a cheeseburger to someone who asks for a banana. If 10/25/69 is what you are into, then you're probably better off heeding the advice of those steering you towards 9/19/70 (prob my favorite of the year, along with 2/13 I suppose) or 5/15/70. 12/30/69 is a fun one as well. 11/2/69 is a real beauty also.

I think those late 69 and 1970 versions are nice in that they tend to have those really quiet segments just after the first verse. As midnightcarousel said, they are less scary/feedback laden and tend to just be more quiet, introspective spaces that gently build into really beautiful jams. 9/19/70 is the perfect example of that, definitely heed the wise words of Mr. Tell and check that one out. I think that is what makes a good Dark Star a great Dark Star. Aside from the first 2 years or so, what defines a Dark Star for me is it's loosely structured but very deliberate transitions between tempos and thematic jams and space segments. Any good long Dark Star is about going on a journey, or perhaps like reading a good book, it twists and turns through various neighborhoods or moods or chapters, and the enjoyment is all about the thrill and "in the moment" uncertainty about what is around the corner. In "short," the fun is in the journey itself, not the destination.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Jun 1, 2010 3:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

For an expert, you don't post very often!

It's been said that 1974 marks Dark Star's "dissolution into space"... The band's jamming in general that year is perhaps more fragmented & chaotic than in 1973. I do love 10/18 (though its slot between Seastones and Morning Dew adds a lot to the intensity), and 2/24 and 9/10 are as of now my favorites from the year - at least til I do more re-listening!

Anyway, it is hard to recommend a Dark Star to someone who doesn't like feedback or space....so that pretty much takes care of my own favorite versions! And it basically rules out late '73/74. But it does make '71 the year to point to.

I don't think grendel would like 3/23/72 much, as it's full of mayhem & discordancy - although the last few minutes are quite appealing.

It does make sense to recommend the versions closest to 10/25/69 - but within the guidelines, late '69 also has some big 'space' sections in the Stars, and it's hard to say how much space it takes to scare off grendel... 11/2 is the greatest of that era in any case; 11/7 may not be the greatest, but I thought it was a lot of fun.
In late '69 and 1970, there's quite a bit of variety in how they tackle the space & following themes - though they have a smaller bag of tricks than in later years, it still comes out different every time! But by '72, the Star jams are more unpredictable, you don't know what might be coming next...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: Jun 1, 2010 5:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

2-24-74 is my favorite show of '74 and perhaps my favorite show period and the Dark Star is part of the appeal. However I did think of one other Dark Star that I listen to more than 2-24 and I think it might fit the initial request. 6-23-74 is probably one of the shortest post-Pig Era DS played (i know they did one for like 3 min in spring '73) however the jamming is jazzy and never scary and it is part of one of my all time favorite sequences transitioning into a fantastic Spanish Jam and then into the best US Blues.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd74-06-23.sbd.cribbs.16780.sbeok.shnf

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Jim F Date: Jun 2, 2010 12:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

Ha yeah I'm not a very regular poster here. But I've been reading this forum and keeping up with you crazies for years haha. Pretty much ever since the GD project began here. I'm highly opinionated but for some reason just rarely ramble much here. :)

I'm an avid collector of 1966-1980, and have at least one source for every show in those years, give or take one or two here and there. I've been seriously collecting since the late 90's and pretty much have the first 15 years of setlists in my Deadbase memorized lol. I'm just as obssessive and neurotic when it comes to collecting and listening to this music as all you regular posters, I just don't comment all that much is all. But when I do read/post, I really feel at home here. There aren't that many places where I can go and make a comment about some 30 second piece of some random jam and have 20 people all know exactly what I'm talking about haha.


Anywho, I haven't listened to 3/23/72 in some time, I think it was those last few minutes that had me thinking it wasn't that "out there." The thematic jam at the end always reminded me of that beautiful jam near the end of 9/21. I don't recall there being that much craziness in that Dark Star. Darnitall I guess now I gotta go pull it out! :-P

Also, basically everything I wanted to say in this thread, you said perfectly right here...I couldn't phrase it any better...


"Anyway, it is hard to recommend a Dark Star to someone who doesn't like feedback or space....so that pretty much takes care of my own favorite versions! And it basically rules out late '73/74. But it does make '71 the year to point to.

I don't think grendel would like 3/23/72 much, as it's full of mayhem & discordancy - although the last few minutes are quite appealing.

It does make sense to recommend the versions closest to 10/25/69 - but within the guidelines, late '69 also has some big 'space' sections in the Stars, and it's hard to say how much space it takes to scare off grendel... 11/2 is the greatest of that era in any case; 11/7 may not be the greatest, but I thought it was a lot of fun.
In late '69 and 1970, there's quite a bit of variety in how they tackle the space & following themes - though they have a smaller bag of tricks than in later years, it still comes out different every time! But by '72, the Star jams are more unpredictable, you don't know what might be coming next..."

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: midnightcarousel Date: Jun 2, 2010 11:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

Keep posting, dude! You are clearly a good writer and seem to have a whole lot of insight and opinions that we'd all like to hear about.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Jim F Date: Jun 5, 2010 2:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

If you meant me, well thank ya very much. I'm no Light Into Ashes, but I've always really enjoyed writing show reviews and my personal observations. I used to follow a local GD tribute around here and record their weekly house gig every week and write reviews to go along with my recordings.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: May 30, 2010 7:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

Grendel ,

Right off the bat is the interwoven DS from 6 -24 70 , none of which has the frightened pet factor

7 - 31 - 71 , esp. if you have the RT instead of the AUD

10 - 30 - 73

2 - 24 - 74

Hope one of 'em hits the spot.

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-05-31 02:13:47

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: SkyDawg Date: May 31, 2010 12:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

I always found the 5/4/72 Paris "Star" to be one of mellower Stars of the period.. check it out! It is also one of the rare Stars of that period to have the final verse being sung instead of dissolving into another song.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1972-05-04.sbd.miller.77294.sbeok.flac16

This post was modified by SkyDawg on 2010-05-31 07:03:57

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: May 30, 2010 8:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

Try Dick's Picks #2 Grendel (10/31/71)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: midnightcarousel Date: May 30, 2010 6:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

I second this - very jazzy and laid back, with intricate jamming - just what you are looking for.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: May 31, 2010 3:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

Its exactly what he asked for. In fact I cannot think of another perfromance of Dark Star that more perfectly fits within the parameters he requested...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: grendelschoice Date: Jun 2, 2010 12:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

Hey, Cliff--Definitely nailed it! A wonderful DS (I went ahead & bought the whole Dix Pix, which also has a sweet NFA>GDTRFB>NFA), and really enjoyed it...especially love when Garcia takes off on that upbeat groovy jam...the last 4 mins. or so denigrates slightly into discord but nothing too scary or crazy. Thanks!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 30, 2010 1:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

2-15-73 short and beautiful and one of the all time great pairings Dark Star>Eyes>China Doll

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: May 30, 2010 12:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

I assume that pretty much any Dark Star '72-'74 will try your patience...most of them have some space & scariness along with the jazz.

Early '71 seems like your cup of tea - and the early Keith Stars have that jazz feel coming in without the big 'space' sections. As it happens, I wrote a pretty exhaustive guide to 1971 Dark Stars:
http://deadessays.blogspot.com/2010/03/dark-star-1971.html

In 1970, most versions have a big noisy space after the verses - can't imagine why you wouldn't like that! - but the first one I'd recommend for you is 3/24/70 - the shortest version of the year, and no verses (thanks to a tapecut). 6/24/70 is quite the thrill ride - and 2/2/70 is an excellent version with just a short space. The 5/15/70 and 5/24/70 versions I remember being pretty compact & straightforward as well.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: grendelschoice Date: May 30, 2010 2:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

Excellent blog, Light...I've got a trove of DS's to check out now...so far the 10-30-73 suggested earlier seems fine...and I like Strato's suggestion for one that's sans verses...long as they stick to the musicality w/out the feed-back-y stuff, I'm there!

(still maintain 10/25/69 as my favorite so far--the one to beat.)

I also love 11/11/73 up until about the 18 minute mark, but then it veers off into the usual noise that I just don't care for.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: deadpolitics Date: May 31, 2010 7:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Calling all Dark Star experts

Oh but the Mind Left Body Jam before Eyes is so soothing to the soul after the chaos... a brief but beautiful moment.